By Doug Winter – RareGoldcoins.com
CoinWeek Content Partner ……
That was the exact question Collector X asked me, in a somewhat whiny manner, at a recent major coin show. But you know something? I can understand his disappointment. He had taken three days off from work, spent thousands of dollars on a plane ticket, hotel and meals, only to come home from the show empty-handed. He’s a coin junkie and I’m sure he won’t be boycotting this summer’s ANA convention but his question got me to thinking…
Why has it become so hard to find the coins you want to buy at coin shows?
As I told Collector X as we spoke at the coin show, he’s not the only one who is having this problem. I’ve been going to coin shows for three decades and I’ve noticed them becoming more and more dry in the last few years. Here are some theories of mine as to why.
1. Heritage: The 900 Pound Gorilla In The Room
All you have to do to see the reach of Heritage is to look and the size and scope of their major auctions. With thousands and thousands of lots worth tens of millions of dollars, these auctions are like vacuums that pull a tremendous amount of material of the bourse floor. Some of the coins in all major coin show auction sale(s) were dealer retreads and some of the coins were low end but there were hundreds and hundreds of choice, high end pieces. This includes many fresh coins that, in the past, might have wound up entering the market through dealer’s inventories instead of through auction.
You know that zombie movie when an army of hungry, brain eatin’ dudes keeps coming and coming at the heroes? That’s sort of like Heritage. Last time I checked they employed just a few zombies but they are extremely formidable competition for small dealers like me and a lot of the coins that formerly would be offered directly to me show up in Heritage sales. And I don’t think I’m the only small dealer who has this perspective.
As Heritage has grown and grown it has created a strange reality in the market. At this point, the coin market is essentially a duopoly (Heritage and the various Spectrum organizations) with a huge degree of separation between the Big Two and nearly everyone else. Since neither of these firms is retail friendly, they use auctions as a way to sell coins directly to collectors.
2. The Coin Show Circuit is Diluted
There are way too many coin shows. I go to between 15 and 20 per year and this is nothing compared to the really hardcore wholesale guys who go to 30 or 40. At this point in my life, I’d rather be going to fewer shows and doing the bulk of my work in my office where its more comfortable and I’m three times more productive.
But its a Catch-22 situation for me. If I don’t go to all of these shows, I become less competitive with the five or six sharp guys who I know are going to be in on every single coin that I’m not going to get offered if I’m not going to be at a show.
But I’m not writing this to gain sympathy from you. You want to know how this dilution of shows affects your ability to buy. Here’s one way which I bet you don’t know.
3. The Shadow Coin Show
Collector X was one of the first hundred people through the door of the show when it opened to the public. Yet, unknown to him, a “shadow coin show” had been going on for at least two days before where many of the nicest, freshest coins traded hands.
Not only is the coin show circuit diluted, it puts unrealistic expectations on dealers. Let’s take my schedule at say a Central States show as an example. I arrived on Tuesday and started a frantic search for coins literally as soon as I arrived. But this was already a day later than some dealers. So if I had arrived on Monday (ugghhh…) it meant a full-week commitment to Central States. I’m OK with this amount of time for FUN and Summer ANA when there are fresh coins available to buy, but it’s impossible for me to commit this much time ten to twelve times per year.
Back to the Shadow Coin Show theory. There are now many dealers who arrive two days before a show opens to the public and leave Thursday morning; just when many collectors are arriving. With these two different schedules going on, everyone in the long run suffers.
4. Many Dealers Don’t Show New Coins at Shows
Before I had an effective website, I would show many of my new purchases at a show. Today, I almost never show them. There are many reasons, good and bad, for this. I’m not alone in doing this.
- I spend a lot of time and money on my site and I find it to be a good way for me to sell.
- I have very limited amounts of time available at shows and it is more effective for me to use them to buy than it is to sell.
- I like Collector X and I value his business. A lot. I feel better knowing that he was able to buy a few coins as soon as I listed my new purchases.
One more thought. Many of the dealers who have tables at major shows are not really “retailers” per se. They may have some coins laid out in their cases but they are primarily wholesalers who lack: a) time b) couth c) desire to sell to people like Collector X. As I walk around the bourse floor a thought hit me: there really aren’t a lot of tables at the show with nice coins on display.
Which brings me to my final point…
5. If You Don’t have a Relationship With a Dealer You Might Be Wasting Your Time at a Show
I must have seen Collector X walk by my table ten times and he must have stopped by three or four times asking me if I had anything new to show him. I felt kind of sorry for him as making the endless shuffle up and down the concrete floors (the Coin Walk of Shame?) couldn’t have been all that much fun. And he was there to have fun, right?
If you don’t have a tight relationship with a few dealers, you aren’t going to see squat in the way of good coins at a show. There. I said it.
Let’s say I buy an 1861-D half eagle in Extremely Fine. Unless Collector X is specifically looking for this coin (or it’s one of the few shows in the year that I commit the time and resources to being able to invoice, process, and price my new coins) it’s going to be hidden in a box in my safe or in my back case, and I’m not going to show it. To Collector X or Dealer Y. And I think this is the case with most other dealers.
Hopefully the coin show wasn’t a total waste for Collector X. He got to see the Newman coins (I told him to carefully study the patterns if only to see what true originality looked like), he schmoozed with a few of his numis-buddies, he got to breathe coins for a few days, and he probably learned that next year he’ll skip the show and keep his powder dry to the Summer ANA show. Or better yet, he’ll let me do the heavy lifting and he’ll find a few new items for his collection from my post-show new purchase listings. (Shameless plug, I know…)
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About Doug Winter
Doug has spent much of his life in the field of numismatics; beginning collecting coins at the age of seven, and by the time he was ten years old, buying and selling coins at conventions in the New York City area.
In 1989, he founded Douglas Winter Numismatics, and his firm specializes in buying and selling choice and rare United States coins, especially US gold coins and all branch mint material.
Recognized as one of the leading specialized numismatic firms, Doug is an award winning author of over a dozen numismatic books and the recognized expert on US Gold. His knowledge and exceptional eye for properly graded and original coins has made him one of the most respected figures in the numismatic community and a sought after dealer by collectors and investors looking for professional personalized service, a select inventory of impeccable quality and fair and honest pricing. Doug is also a major buyer of all US coins and is always looking to purchase collections both large and small. He can be reached at 214-675-9897.
Doug has been a contributor to the Guidebook of United States Coins (also known as the “Redbook”) since 1983, Walter Breen’s Encyclopedia of United States and Colonial Coins, Q. David Bowers’ Encyclopedia of United States Silver Dollars and Andrew Pollock’s United States Pattern and Related Issues
In addition he has authored 13 books on US Gold coins including:
- Gold Coins of the New Orleans Mint: 1839-1909
- Gold Coins of the Carson City Mint: 1870 – 1893
- Gold Coins of the Charlotte Mint: 1838-1861
- Gold Coins of the Dahlonega Mint 1838-1861
- The United States $3 Gold Pieces 1854-1889
- Carson City Gold Coinage 1870-1893: A Rarity and Condition Census Update
- An Insider’s Guide to Collecting Type One Double Eagles
- The Connoisseur’s Guide to United States Gold Coins
- A Collector’s Guide To Indian Head Quarter Eagles
- The Acadiana Collection of New Orleans Coinage
- Type Three Double Eagles, 1877-1907: A Numismatic History and Analysis
- Gold Coins of the Dahlonega Mint, 1838-1861: A Numismatic History and Analysis
- Type Two Double Eagles, 1866-1876: A Numismatic History and Analysis
Finally Doug is a member of virtually every major numismatic organization, professional trade group and major coin association in the US.
If you are interested in buying or selling classic US coins or if you would like to have the world’s leading expert work with you assembling a set of coins? Contact Doug Winter at (214) 675-9897 or by email at [email protected]
CAC Gold Coins Currently Available on eBay
In my experience shows are good for networking, schmoozing, dropping coins off for grading, and selling items that are not worth auctioning, but I don’t often buy much at shows, and what I see in my price range is pretty much the same old stuff. Once in a while, though, if you spend some time looking, talking, and bargaining, you can get something neat that you would not have found online at that price.
EXACTLY! I’m not in the Big Leagues at all. I’m a “tweener” collector. Too advanced to be a beginner, too low a budget to play in the Bigs. I buy extraordinarily little at the big shows. Most of my acquisitions come at estate sale auctions, and small local shows occasionally. But I do attend the big ANA shows – to learn mostly. I go to Money Talks, and World Mint Stage presentations, I view the exhibits, and I love to see the material at the World Mint Promenade. Seeing things in person is so much better than 2D photographs. And of course I go to renew relationships with the family of great numismatists. I’m lucky – I have a teenage son who is as passionate about coins as I am. We even attend the ANA Board meetings without fail, and try to contribute there. There is far more to a major show than buying stuff, not that you should ever turn off your radar.
It seems to me that numismatics has become a business, and the hobby is dying. The article and comments relate to dealers buying and selling “high end” coins. I believe coin shows should promote the hobby first, and let dealers hob-nob when it’s slow or after hours.\
Give it a few years, and there will be even less interest in collecting. Where will new collectors come from, when what they can buy is often publicly referred to as “junk coins”?
“Sorry, kid…that collection you saved for several years is just junk. You wasted your time.”
When the demand goes, due to lack of interest, how much will your coin be worth?
Numismatics has always been BOTH a hobby and a business, and the marketplace is made up of a variety of collecting interests at all price points.
I will never own an 1804 dollar, but that does not mean I’m not interested in learning about it, seeing photos and by chance, holding one in my hands.
The Hobby is much more about having an interest in coins and money and a love of history than it is about the need to possess an object. At least that is how I have always looked at it.
I believe the article is a correct perspective from a dealer’s point of view. Attending one of these shows is expensive and they cannot treat it as a quasi recreational activity or else they won’t stay in business in the long run.
I collect world coins and have attended the ANA the most, but except for once, only when I was traveling near where it was hosted or when it was in my home town. I collect a handful of world coin series and have found little to buy. However, for the “typical” collector who buys what most other US collectors do, there should be plenty for them to buy.